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some would say a dive bar exists merely to pour whiskey down its patrons' throats. What's the best bourbon a bar can offer and still maintain its dive status--the ubiquitous Jack & Jim, or something nearer the top shelf?
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Tue, May 1, 2007 - 11:50 PMjim and jack both have reduced their proofage in recent years from 100 to 80 to compete more favorably with the vodka segment, and thus are not something manly to order. If you want to impress, I suggest ordering from my list, in top down ranking of quality
Knob Creek
Wild Turkey 101
Old Crow
Evan
10 High
Early Times
I've never seen a dive not to stock turkey, and even though it's rough, Old Crow's got some history. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Wed, May 2, 2007 - 8:21 AMWell, this regular dive bar patron loves her Maker's Mark neat, and I find it all over the place, I'm happy to say:)
Jen -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Wed, May 2, 2007 - 9:26 AMWhen it comes to bourbon more often than not I am with Jenn, I like my Makers unless Im at a non - dive bar with a broad selection of speciality bourbons -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 12:06 AMBourbon is *the* American liquor.
And, it's my favorite.
I've even gone to Kentucky for distillery tours and tastings. It's funny that some of the counties where the best bourbons are produced are "dry" counties where it can't be sold.
Woodford Reserve distillery is gorgeous and I'd recomend visiting.
Probably the best bourbon I've had is Pappy Van Winkle's 20 year old. It's probably one of the best bourbons one can ever get a hold of.
But at dives, one can almost always find Maker's Mark these days.
And by the way, Jack Daniels is NOT a bourbon. But Jim Beam is. Jack isn't filtered properly to ba a bourbon. Otherwise it would be. And FYI, bourbons do not *have* to be made in Kentucky. But most are. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 9:48 AMhey c/l-
thanks for the straight dope re what is bourbon and what isn't. There's a decidedly un-dive bar near my office that has a truly impressive selection of bourbons--they've got their own book to explain all the variety, and you can buy flights of various types of whiskies. T-Rex Barbecue, on 10th St and Gilman in North Berkeley. The food's just okay, the space is cool, but the bar is worth the journey.
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 12:11 PMI might be wrong on this, but isn't jack also put into the barrels around 150 proof or so, and then watered down to it's 80 proof standard? Most bourbons are aged at overproof then watered down to make the flavors less strong and more pallatable to wusses, and also to make more product from the same amount of barrels. Bourbon, by law, can't be aged at more than 125 proof or so. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 6:46 PMSam,
As far as I know, you're right about the part "make more product from the same amount of barrels." It has to do with money...barrels are expensive so with higher proof you can age more alcohol per barrel and then add deionized water afterwords in order to get down to the desired proof.
I doubt JD is barreled at 75% (150 proof) alcohol. Pretty much all bourbons and sour mash whiskeys are put in no higher that 60% alcohol because anything higher than that really affects the taste as the whiskey is aged. It just doesn't taste good. However, I don't actually think doing so (at 75%) would break one of the rules making something a bourbon; but it might...I'm not sure. Most bourbons are put into barrels at about 50-55% alcohol (100-11- proof).
Here is a bit of info I found on Jack Daniels from www.straightbourbon.com
"Jack Daniel's, is not considered a bourbon because it is charcoal-mellowed -- slowly, drop by drop, filtered through sugar-maple charcoal -- prior to aging, which many experts say gives it a different character. The process, called the Lincoln County Process, infuses a sweet and sooty character into the distillate as it removes impurities. But up to and after the charcoal filtering, the Jack Daniel's production is much the same as any other Bourbon. Jack Daniel's and George Dickel are two fine Tennessee Whiskeys though neither can be called bourbon. " Thus it's the filtering. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 6:55 PMSam,
You are right about there being a "distilled to proof limit." ...It is distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof.... I found this info:
Bourbon is an American form of whiskey made from (pursuant to U.S. law) at least 51% corn — typically about 70% — with the remainder being wheat and/or rye, and malted barley. It is distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof, and aged in new charred oak barrels for at least two years. The two years maturation process is not a legal requirement for a whiskey to be called "bourbon," but it is a legal requirement for "straight bourbon." However, in practice, most bourbon whiskeys are aged for at least four years.
Bourbon must be put into the barrels at no more than 125 U.S. proof. After aging it is diluted with water to 80–100 proof and bottled. Some jurisdictions, mostly in the United States, do not allow alcoholic beverages with over 40% alcohol content to be sold.[citation needed] However, the recent trend among distillers has been to return to higher proofs, and even “cask strength” bottlings.[citation needed]
Bourbon can legally be made anywhere in the United States where it is legal to distill spirits. Legitimate production is not restricted to Kentucky, although currently all but a few brands are made there, and the drink is associated strongly with that commonwealth. Illinois once produced nearly as much bourbon whiskey as Kentucky, and bourbon continues to be made in Virginia. In the past bourbon has been made in Pennsylvania, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Missouri and Kansas.
The name is taken from Bourbon County, Kentucky.
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Sun, May 6, 2007 - 5:22 PMGood info.
As a point of interist, if you ever find yourself in kentucky, you can pick up used oak barrels for damn near nothing, and if you put ANYTHING in those to age, it comes out bourbontastic. A brewery near my place in Atlanta used to put a beer in JD barrels for 40 days or so, came out at 15% with a sortof burbon/caramel sweetness.
I thought that bourbon county is named for Bourbon, the drink, which was originally made further north in Appalachia, and named for the monarch family. I'm stretching my memory, but I thought that bourbon was a name used for American corn whiskey from around the 1600's, to distinguish it from the grain whiskeys native to europe?
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 1:31 PMi love a dive bar with a broad selection...
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Unsu...
Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 3:23 PMKnob Creek and Maker's Mark are what I would typically order, BUT I don't consider either of those "dive bar" bourbons.
To me, the best combination of sketchy dive-ish lineage and pleasant palatability is: ANCIENT AGE. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Fri, May 4, 2007 - 6:50 PMI agree that 'fancy' alcohol is not divey for sure. But in my experience I think it's interesting that in of all the liquors in a dive, whiskeys seem to be the one mostly likely to have something pretty good. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Sat, May 5, 2007 - 11:11 AMprobably. and well whore vodka/gin me, i can speak to some pretty scorchin' hangovers (currently as i type. what a shocker.) based on some nasty shoe polishy liquid substances. this thread has almost inspired me to at least upgrade my cheap ass booze to some 'dark colored liquor'. but on the flipside: i hate to throw my longstanding bartenders a new curve ball on what my usual is. anybody else ever have that conundrum btw? -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Mon, May 7, 2007 - 8:45 AMA good bartender can field any curve, trap any bunt, and leap for any fly. take that however you will. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 3:02 PMdive bartenders are specifically good specimens of human ingenuity, strength, and ability. I bet that if you got three of 'em together they could solve world hunger, mix me a singapore sling, run the boston marathon, pour short to a drunk without the drunk noticing, spit in someone's drink who didn't tip, and recapture the faulkland islands while getting a tattoo to commemorate the occasion. -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Mon, June 11, 2007 - 11:49 AMSo why can't you get three of them together? -
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Re: dive bar bourbon
Mon, June 11, 2007 - 11:50 AMBecause they're always busy listening to our sad, petty problems!
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